After 24 hours of 'Brain-testing', I Feel a Reasonable Solution is at Hand
Published on February 21, 2010 By ScottTykoski In Elemental Dev Journals
Of all the aspects of Elemental, none seem to strike a nerve quite like the handling of cities.  Automation, size, uniqueness, too many in the world or too few...everyone has their take on how cities should feel. I believe, above all else, the worlds and nations of Elemental need to grow in a manner parallel to how RPS maps feel...in other words, elimination city spam without eliminating the joys of city building.
 
To that end, we're doing something that (I believe) hasn't been done before, and that is putting City Creation right on the main map.  You're placing buildings and slowly taking up precious land in the world around you. Pinch points can be established and cities can grow WELL beyond the single tile that most 4x games limit you to. I personally love it, and want to make sure the system continues to improve and refine as we inch towards gold.
 
Several concerns have arisen, however, and I've been mulling over these issues, mentioned by beta testers, that makes the current system lame.
 
1. Building a city, and suddenly running out of tiles with no way to get more.
 
2. Plopping down an outpost to harvest a resource 4 tiles from another city.
 
3. Forcing the player Snaking a trail of small improvements over to
 
4. Easily growing and reaching new city levels, where all outposts will eventually become huge cities.
 
and
 
5. Even though it costs Essence to make land livable, city spam is still completely viable in Elemental.
 
These make us sad, and while there have been many solutions presented to improve the system, I wanted to throw my own into the mix as a way to fix these problems AND tie into the other game mechanics (remember Sid's rule "Complex system's aren't fun - instead, make simple systems that intertwine in interesting ways."*).
 
* - I really shouldn't put that in quotes since that was the gist of what he said...but it was something like that.

So I present to you...
 
 
My proposed 'Heroes as Governors' system!!!
 
Basically, we'd add a stat to Champions: Governing. This would be a value (0 - 5), that determines two things...
 
1. How high of a city that hero can govern, and...
2. How many tiles their cities can grow to.
 
The system would work as such...you lay down a city, and in the naming of your new outpost you'd get to assign an available unit as that cities 'governor'. This unit wouldn't have to be stationed there permanent, but for every city placed you'd need a Hero or Family Member to lead it (with most units giving some bonus when they WERE stationed in a city).
 
Need a resource tapped? Just start an outpost and have Ranger Billy govern it. It'll never go above a level 1, unless you determine it's a crucial location, at which point you re-assign a better governor and build the city up.
 
Governor dies in battle? Several things could happen...
- If you have an unassigned hero with a governing level >= the fallen unit, then you could assign them to the orphaned settlement. 
- Have enough essence and you can spend that to bring the Governor unit back to life (with the obvious magical consequences that spending essence results in)
- or, if these aren't available, the Succession system kicks in and the city is given to the a neighbor capable of handling the settlement
 
So, a straightforward system that ties the major game component into the hero, magic, diplomacy, and dynasty system.
 
Pushing my luck, I also propose the following...
 

Allowing resource tapping improvements, and them only, to be built away from the main city hub.  The obvious benefits that you wouldn't have to build another city to tap it, AND you wouldn't have to 'snake' your improvements to get there, but the improvement WOULD NOT be defended by whatever walls and stationed units the city had available, so there's a major risk in doing so.s
 
While I like some of the ideas of treating resource taping like the starbases in GC2, I really don't want to start 'mixing systems' where city's are handled like X and colonies are handled like Y.
 
Anyways, that's just MY personal idea on the whole matter. Does it solve all issues current and future? Certainly not, but hopefully it'd put us one step closer to a truly unique and engaging system for building both your cities and your nation.

Comments (Page 17)
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on Feb 26, 2010

KellenDunk

 
The problem is already there, --> city spam. I just want to come up with the best way to limit its as much as possible. Increasingly expensive "new city" techs would go much farther in doing that than simply a single base price for the tech, imo. But you had to deal with city conquest, and the addition of new cities through that manner... but I feel my new suggestion above makes that a non-issue now.

I don't understand why you need to consider captured cities at all in this process.

Because by capturing, you are still gaining more cities. The whole idea is the more cities you have the harder it is to research the next new city tech. This not only limits city spam, but late game 'mop up' snore fests.

on Mar 02, 2010

Cauldyth

But in Elemental the population = military.
Only after they're trained.  Until then, they're just soft squishy things. 

That is what the great Heroes are for.

Haven't you seen the movies?  The hero always gets there first, warns the people of impending disaster and then inspires them with charismatic speeches, takes the reigns of leadership to work with whatever is at hand and gives training to fight off the evils horde or die trying.  There is a big difference between a unit than can provide a few combat bonuses and a unit that can get a passive civilian population to fight even remotely effectively.

on Mar 02, 2010

Yay for hordes of 1 HP civilians equipped with 2 attack and 2 defense!!! Inspired by a Hero.

Really this is a re-visitation of the Dynamic Population-City defense mechanism. Such inspired citizens would be as effective as the utility of average equipment.

Say there is 60 units of leather available per turn, and 30 units available for steel. Either all citizens have leather, or 60% have leather. OR average the numbers, say hardened leather is 2 and 2, while basic steel is 5 and 5, then the citizens would all be 3 and 3. Either way, all citizens would have 1 HP with the occasional 2 HP person.

on Mar 03, 2010

I would still bet on a force of well armed vets with a hero agasint a bunch of peasents with a hero. Unless your saying the vets don't get a hero? In any case, you gotta assume the other side has a unit just as powerful as your side, otherwise its just wishful thinking.

on Mar 03, 2010

It's a matter of different specialties and choices.  Under the right circumstances, one hero might be able to raise an effective army of peasants cheaply and quickly.  But on the other hand, with a long lead time and a big city and plenty of money and resources, presumably any sovereign will have options for raising a dangerous army like those hypothetical veterans.  Sure, if you can have your cake and eat it too, with a hero AND a high-quality army, that's better -- but it's not as easy.  You spent money and resources on the Circlet of Inspiration, or on armored levies.  You had a limited amount of money and resources.  The guy who gets both is winning economically -- more productive cities, expenses under control, whatever -- and it makes sense that he could produce a superior force.  It no more demonstrates that heroes leading peasants are worthless every time than the hero and his peasants being beaten by a much larger hero/peasant army would.  Two dragons might easily kill five archers, but that doesn't mean five archers aren't a useful early garrison, or that you shouldn't bother getting five archers because your opponent will just respond with two dragons.

Variable ease of acquisition, variable utility.

on Mar 03, 2010

Actually, now that i think about it, if your cities are being attacked by veteran troops, and all you have to defend yourself with is a hero, you are probably screwed anyway.

on Mar 03, 2010

Now that I think about it, if your able to raise a peasant army, with good terrain tactics/ect, you might have a chance to at least give the Invaders more losses than they would otherwise recieve.

Still, no matter what you are being invaded with, having a peasant army hastily recruited would be better than no army at all.

Consider this. Lets assume that all the Weapons you make are 7 attack, and all Armors you make are 10 defense. So you have limited troops because it takes a long time to train for those weapons, or something, or your focused on CHampions and Quests. Or magic. Lets assume you are focused on Champions/Quests. Your city might have 3 Uber-CHampions. THen lets say your Military Heavy opponent invades with an army of 2,000 troops of 10 HP, 5 attack, and 5 defense.

You then have about 10,000 peasants you can equip with 1 HP, 7 Attack, and 10 Defense. (out of an 80,000 pop city)

On pure numbers, its 20,000 HP, 5 attack, 5 defense, vs 10,000 HP, 7 attack, 10 defense. Who will win? Using Pure numbers, the veteran army will obviously win, but using those 3 Uber CHampions, plus Terrain Tactics, City Defense tactics, as well as other useful abilities on the tactical map, you *might* be able to pull a Win or a Draw.

Don't Underestimate Peasant armies just because of their 1 HP. Of course ... that raises the question of how they got so many weapons in the first place ... but this is all hypothetical. (the *reason* for excess weapons was that the Nation's Training times seemed VERY expensive compared to equipment costs ... meaning their Armory Industry was probably rather high)

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