A Quick Journal before we sleep for 48 hours straight...
Published on August 27, 2010 By ScottTykoski In Elemental Dev Journals

So launch week has come and gone. It’s certainly been...exciting?  Anxiety producing? Wonderful? Crazy exausting? All the above? 

Brad is currently taking some much deserved time off with his family, and, with v1.06 out the door, the team is about to do the same. We’ll be back Monday, but before then, I wanted to bring everyone up to speed on what we’re working on....

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1. The Mega Feedback List
We love feedback . Good, bad, ugly, whatever...this is as much your game as it is ours, so it’s with great excitement that we visit countless forums, lurking in the shadows as Elemental is discussed. Hear a muffled cough as you discuss the magic system on forums.penny-arcade.com? Just us   No reason to be afraid.

As suggestions/complaints/bugs are posted, anywhere, they get cobbled into a master feedback spreadsheet with a column called “Count”. The more an Issue is complained or talked about about, the higher it climb on the list, giving a better view on how the entire WORLD feels about the game..it makes me feel very Adrian Veidt.

Current major issues being addressed internally...
- Magic System Numbers (currently rolling 0-x, meaning high level spells missing)
- City management screen
- Cursor/Selection Funkiness in Tactical Battles
- More informative UI across the board
- More Maps
- Overall balance (overpowered late game units, overpowered peasants, etc)

2. Performance Issues
People with awesome rigs are getting crummy performance. This is the next major ‘bug’ on our list, and we’ve made some major headway. Most of the issue lies with the LOD on zoom technology that fades things out as a zoom percentage is reached. As overall zoom range, specific LOD levels, and new tile diesigns are tweaked and added, the game seems to be displaying many objects, in general, when zoomed out. Code is being tweaked to make batching faster and tile designs are being tweaked to simplify better as the user zooms out...

Debug Message:  *** TD Details: F_Town_02 ***
Closest:0
Closer:0
Close:19
Mid:44
Far:14
Farther:3
Farthest:17
Total Objects:97

The fallen Town, for instance, clocks in at 97 objects, many of these being dupes that get batched together. Unfortunately, we don’t start fading out objects until the ‘Mid’ zoom level...right before the cloth map is enabled (at its default value), so even zoomed out pretty far we’re still displaying all 97 objects when we could probably get away with 40-50.

So while there’s no ‘silver bullet’, improvements across these areas of the LOD system should help performance issues considerably.

Oh, wait, Jesse just fixed some code and is now seeing a 10-20 fps boost...so apparently there WAS a silver bullet...and apparently he’s saving the details for his own change log    But good news, regardless! (jesse: so hovering over a city that used to give me 25fps now gives me 42-43)


3. AI Prep
Brad may be off the grid, but I can only imagine the AI plans he’ll come back with. To that end, we’re going to be cleaning code to make it easier for him to access specific circumstances that the AI can intelligently react to (how many times have you gone back on peace treaties, how many wars have you started, how many wars have you successfully fought back against, etc).


4. Playing the Game and Brainstorming for the Future
This is what I’m most looking forward to. We’ve been in 100% ‘make the game’ mode, giving us no time to enjoy our creation (I’ve snuck in a few hours, but always feel guilty about it). Now that we have time to play, we also have time to brainstorm what WE want to put into the game. Many times this will synch up with what you guys want, but it’s amazing what the team will do, even in their free-time, to make the game better (my ‘wouldn’t it be cool’ feature is a spell that locks escape routes, making a given T.Battle a fight to the finish).


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So that’s where we are, three days after release. There are other issues being addressed - we’re on the lookout for future Win7 64bit ATI issues, and balance/pacing will remain high on our priority lists, but more than anything, we look forward to hearing what you guys have to say about the game....for good or ill...in the weeks and months to come!

Now, seriously, time for bed.


Comments (Page 7)
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on Aug 28, 2010

BlackRainZ

Is there really a reason for a post like this?

 

Anytime someone starts a post/statement with any variation of "Not to offend, but. . ." I immediately disregard everything else they're saying, because they basically just said "I am going to say something very offensive."

 

I suspect I am not the only person with this reaction.

on Aug 28, 2010

reguam
 

I hate to be a hater but really not feeling the love here.  I have become almost as interested in the forums as the game.  Some very interesting dynamics here.  A plumber comes to your house that you pay $100 to fix something.  When they leave the house floods.  The plumber starts telling you how over worked they are, never rest, need to take a week vacation, we really love you but, etc.  BUT MY HOUSE IS FLOODING, and it is directly related to something you did.  You are using the money I paid you to fix my house on your vacation, while my house is flooding. 

From my perspective the patches can never fix the frustration each player has independently gone through at home trying to play this game.  They paid to have fun and instead received a lot of frustration.  How can you patch that?  The game was released too soon, you knew it was too soon, and you did it anyways.  If this was an intentional strategy to control piracy just say so.  That is something most of the users would understand and agree with.  That means you did it to protect their interest. 

But to continue with this sheepish, look at us we are working everyday to help you, I need a week vacation, my wife is upset with me, there are so many different types of computes, etc., is wearing thin, at least for me.  You can't possibly compare that to the 1000's of combined hours players have sat frustrated and disappointed trying to play this game pre patch.

 

And the plumber example didn't help your argument.

on Aug 28, 2010

LDiCesare
- More Maps

Duh.

You cannot  provide enough map seeds to give variability and replayability. Even with 100 seeds for 1 map size (and land/water configuration ideally), a player will play the same map again within 12 games, which is too little.

You must provide a good random map generator, and the easiest and cheapest way to do this would be to expose map scripting to python (or any other language), so we could port map scripts from Civ IV or write them ourselves.

Besides being a replayability issue, everybody wants to know that this world belongs to them only, and the story they are writing with the gameplay is uniquely theirs.

on Aug 28, 2010

But to continue with this sheepish, look at us we are working everyday to help you, I need a week vacation, my wife is upset with me, there are so many different types of computes, etc., is wearing thin, at least for me. You can't possibly compare that to the 1000's of combined hours players have sat frustrated and disappointed trying to play this game pre patch.

     You know, I don't plan on buying this game, as soon as I see tiles, I'm out. And Dawn of Discovery, a very different game, had graphic's that put this game to shame. ( those are cities)  That said I agree with this poster that maybe going on vacation immediately after launch, no matter how deserved is not a great idea.

on Aug 28, 2010

Wizard1200

The character stats could be better balanced. In my opinion STR and DEX are the most poerful stats, because they increase the Attack and Defense. CON, INT, WIS and esp. CHA are not as powerful.

 

You know after posting in another thread I've decided that I needed to comment on this. Your assessment of the stats is misguided I think, based on how you are approaching the game.

 

1. Str and Dex are good for attack/defense, yes, but that's equivocal with CON, because with CON you can absorb a couple more retaliations, plus you can eat a couple of spells from an enemy caster.

2. Int is balanced once Magic is brought up to par. The problem isn't that INT is unbalance, the problem is Magic is generally weak and narrow, this will get fixed.

3. Essence/Wisdom is huge. It is absolutely huge, but people don't recognize it because they aren't making use of its greatest function: "Imbue Champion". Imbuing your Champions can make for some major strength. Sure, you'll end up limiting a lot of your casters (besides your sovereign) to only casting one or two spells, but when you add the Unit Essence Bonus techs in the Magic tree (which people think is useless, because again they're not using Essence/Wis to its utmost) they stack up to be powerful casters. Hire more champions. Imbue them with some casting ability. Split your armies. Don't just have your Sovereign be your only real force. You have so much capability with a high Wisdom to spread your spellcasting out to more than just your Sovereign it's almost a pity no one ever seems to use it.

4. CHA is a lot more powerful than people think. They think it's not powerful because of the issues with #3. If you take into account that you can splash your Essence around and make a score of armies led by some moderately-powerful casters that can adjust the tactical floor (which makes the Tac battles a lot more Tactical) then you will begin to see the real value of CHA when you move to hire the higher level adventurers that, with a CHA of 8-10 cost over 200gildar, but with a CHA of, say, 13-16 cost a mere 160ish gildar. 

 

Remember "Imbue Champion" and "Make Caster" are there. Remember that. That is the single-most powerful spell in the entire game, and I really think no one realizes that.

on Aug 28, 2010

 

I find those being so anxious to stand up for the developers, to use another bad anology, like a hostage not wanting to piss off there captor.  If we piss them off they might stop trying to develop patches.  We will never really know what was in their minds when they released this game.  "Maybe they really did believe it was ready for release".  Close your eyes, say that three times, and click your heels.

I am actually liking the post patched game, having played about twenty hours with very few problems.  I am just commenting on the process following the release problems.

on Aug 28, 2010

lswallie


CITY BUILDING: Basically with each new city I just click every building I can build and plant it in my city. I don't even care. Cause there is no reason too. Everything needs to be built so I just build it as fast as I can. If this is the case why not just make building cities cost more and bypass placing buildings in the first place if everything will eventually be built? No fun. Give buildings more reason or choice. Right now I just feel like a monkey placing everything down. Since I can only place one of each building - least that is what it seems - maybe some buildings we should be able to duplicate? So we can specialize cities?

 

 

To be fair, just about every 4X game has you pretty much building the same building on every single city or planet...

on Aug 28, 2010

Lord_Asmodeous

1. Str and Dex are good for attack/defense, yes, but that's equivocal with CON, because with CON you can absorb a couple more retaliations, plus you can eat a couple of spells from an enemy caster.

2. Int is balanced once Magic is brought up to par. The problem isn't that INT is unbalance, the problem is Magic is generally weak and narrow, this will get fixed.

3. Essence/Wisdom is huge. It is absolutely huge, but people don't recognize it because they aren't making use of its greatest function: "Imbue Champion". Imbuing your Champions can make for some major strength. Sure, you'll end up limiting a lot of your casters (besides your sovereign) to only casting one or two spells, but when you add the Unit Essence Bonus techs in the Magic tree (which people think is useless, because again they're not using Essence/Wis to its utmost) they stack up to be powerful casters. Hire more champions. Imbue them with some casting ability. Split your armies. Don't just have your Sovereign be your only real force. You have so much capability with a high Wisdom to spread your spellcasting out to more than just your Sovereign it's almost a pity no one ever seems to use it.

4. CHA is a lot more powerful than people think. They think it's not powerful because of the issues with #3. If you take into account that you can splash your Essence around and make a score of armies led by some moderately-powerful casters that can adjust the tactical floor (which makes the Tac battles a lot more Tactical) then you will begin to see the real value of CHA when you move to hire the higher level adventurers that, with a CHA of 8-10 cost over 200gildar, but with a CHA of, say, 13-16 cost a mere 160ish gildar.

1. I think in the current version and even if the combat mechanic will be changed the HP are too low to protect your character in the late game where a single hit can inflict 20 or more points of damage.

2. You are probably right, but my comment was aimed at the current version.

3. and 4. Yes i forgot that you can give your Essence to other Champions, but i think WIS and CHA should be not used only for Imbuing Champions.

on Aug 28, 2010

Wizard1200

1. I think in the current version and even if the combat mechanic will be changed the HP are too low to protect your character in the late game where a single hit can inflict 20 or more points of damage.

2. You are probably right, but my comment was aimed at the current version.

3. and 4. Yes i forgot that you can give your Essence to other Champions, but i think WIS and CHA should be not used only for Imbuing Champions.

 

I'll definitely grant you #1. I think 5:1 is too big of an exchange though. 3:1 would be a lot better balanced. 5:1 would make sov's way OP. 2, yeah, but thankfully they are fully aware of it and have pledged to get that resolved.

 

Well, Essence will also become more powerful once the magic system is fixed, in all honesty, but I do agree with CHA. It is not underpowered by any stretch, but it could have a wider range of function. I think that was my primary meaning and I just did not convey it well.

on Aug 28, 2010

Lord_Asmodeous

I'll definitely grant you #1. I think 5:1 is too big of an exchange though. 3:1 would be a lot better balanced. 5:1 would make sov's way OP. 2, yeah, but thankfully they are fully aware of it and have pledged to get that resolved.

Oh, i meant that your character gets 1 HP per level after the first for every 5 points of CON (CON 10: 10 HP at level 1 and 2 HP per level after the first).

I think the Enchantment book should be moved from the character creation to the Magic tech tree and the Elemental books should cost 2 points per maximum spell level.

This would bring the character creation closer to MoM and gives the player more options to customize his character.

on Aug 28, 2010

Can't wait to see where this goes. Gl&Hf

on Aug 28, 2010

 

 

on Aug 28, 2010

EDIT: Having issues with quoting Islanddog

on Aug 28, 2010

Elemental, really is a great game. But I've found some minor issues that, in my opinion, need fixing;

-the faction strengh "Master Archer" need to be fixed. At the moment it gives you archery, and the ability to research the techs that has that as there requirement. This means you can research the best weapons in the game, immediately. The requirement for all techs, should be changed, so it is all preceding techs, so that "Master Archer" only gives you archery from the start of the game.

-When playing as an Empire, you can build a peasant unit with 13hp, base 5,+8 from Con.

-Legendary Gear is to cheap to buy for your champions and sovereign and to easy to get in the tech tree.

on Aug 28, 2010

There are many bug, polish, and system issues which I could list here, but there's only one problem i don't see being addressed currently by the team and will focus on instead.

For me, the biggest issue is the giant gremlin in the room . It's the thing on your list of improvements that many 4x and stardock fans really don't understand:

"- More Maps"

As someone else has already said above, no one wants more maps. More maps is a temporary fix. We want a real, working, random world generation algorithm.

All the current statements out of Stardock on other issues give me confidence in the future of this game except this one; When i first heard what the game was currently doing my jaw hit the floor. The mind boggled and to this day remains in a boggily state. I guarantee you this is an issue that will become more and more pressing with time as player's start realizing that the game is just recycling pre-created maps over and over again. The way things work now, most players won't even be aware the game is doing anything differently than they expect when they start a new game and make a new world. But when they do, it will be a rude awakening.

Even 100 or 1000 times the current number of maps can never gurantee a player won't end up in a ruined game. And without a real algorithm, players can never tweak the maps for the base game to their liking, or for mod makers, to fit their mods the way they would expect to be able to.

There has never been a game i can remember in the genre that has not provided this feature or has attempted to get by with this current approach. World creation and exploring the unknown is the core of 4x and without it Elemental will always be less than it should be, especially to the fans that put the most effort into learning, playing, and modding the game.

Civ, Moo, Mom, GC; how many of these games would still be relevant today if they shipped with the system Elemental is using? It's hard to make any sort of positive argument for this approach, especially with how much focus the team has put on saying that the sandbox is the focus of the game.

It's also been said by Stardock that mod creators will provide maps and this will somehow solve the problem long term, but this idea is rather strange. Why would modders create hundreds of basic maps designed according to a strict standard for playability, just to have them placed anonymously into a seed directory. And why should the player have to download them just to guarantee the basic mode stays interesting--not to mention the time a player loads up a map and realizes the ocean is shaped like a penis.

For the longevity of the game, the team needs to come forward and reassure players and modder's that a working world generation engine will happen at some point.

For more reference there was a large topic on this with feedback from many people, including some big names in the civ modding community: https://forums.elementalgame.com/391353

 

I'm a huge fan of GC 2, Sins, and Stardock's general approach to game design. I just hope you guys come around on this issue so i can breath a little easier. 

 

I'm glad your listening and working so hard to get this game in ship shape. I know this issue can seems less pressing than bugs, ui, and big game play problems like the magic system, but it's still a really important part of the game and should be given some love as well.

Good lucks guys.

 

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